Tackling the big, complex issues in agriculture - Catherine Marriott and Kirsten Diprose
Show Notes
Agriculture isn’t just the act of growing crops or tending to the animals, as the dictionary likes to define it. It’s actually a complex system …which impacts and is impacted by a variety of things from government regulation, people, climate change, politics and so much more. Therefore stepping into the space of advocacy on an issue, can often feel difficult. However, as our guests explain, you don’t need to have ALL the answers.
Hear from:
Catherine Marriott OAM - Systems thinker, beef industry expert and agriculture advocate, Broome WA.
Kirsten Diprose - Farmer, podcaster, board director and former journalist, Caramut VIC.
That’s right, Kirsten, the host of Ducks on the Pond, is actually a guest on this podcast episode which has been made in collaboration with the Australian Rural Leadership Foundation. And that’s because this interview is also being played on the ARLF’s podcast, Rural Leadership Unearthed. Kirsten is currently halfway through the ARLF’s flagship 2 year program and Catherine completed it about 10 years, calling it a life-changing experience.
You’ll also hear from Claire Delahunty in this episode, another rural woman (and host of Rural Leadership Unearthed), as our host.
THANK YOU to our episode sponsor: Aspen Lou - Rural Interior Design Specialist (She has a special promotion for Ducks listeners too!)
This podcast is produced by the Rural Podcasting Co.
Links:
https://www.instagram.com/missiemazzy/
https://www.instagram.com/theimpossiblefarmher/?hl=en
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Catherine Marriott: 0:03
So for me, the fear of being criticised or having people say awful things about me was less than my determination to make a difference.
Kirsten Diprose: 0:13
If there is an injustice, I don't want to see it through the view of an ideology. I want to see it through the lens of how can we make something better. Hello, welcome to Ducks in the Pond, brought to you by the Rural Podcasting Co. I'm Kirsten Dibros and, yes, you did just hear my voice in the intro there and that's because I'm one of the guests, a guest on my own podcast. Who'd have thought? I'll explain in a moment. But first a big thank you to our episode sponsor, Aspen Quick, who founded Aspen Lou, which is a rural interior design business. She's a rural woman herself, based in country Vic, and so gets what's needed in a rural home, but also how to make it beautiful and stylish, and she's giving us a 10% discount for Ducks on the Pond listeners. Just DM Aspen Lou on Instagram and mention the podcast, or you can head to their website Aspen Lou Lou is spelled L-O-U, and you'll meet Aspen Quick, the founder, at the end of this episode.
Kirsten Diprose: 1:19
So how did I end up a guest on my own podcast? Well, this episode is being made in collaboration with the Australian Rural Leadership Foundation. Now, just to be clear, it's not a financial thing. We just thought both of our audiences might be interested in this chat and I'm actually doing the ARLF's two-year leadership program. I'm halfway through and Catherine Marriott, our guest, did the program too about 10 years ago, and Catherine or Maz is really the reason I'm doing the course now. She put up a post on LinkedIn saying it completely changed her approach to advocacy and making an impact, and that caught my attention, because Maz has had such an impact that she's even been awarded an OAM for her work in promoting the agriculture industry and in regional development, and it's hard to give her a title, so I'm going to let her do it, but she has been a CEO, a beef industry consultant and an entrepreneur. She's basically someone who just makes things happen. So in this episode you'll learn about systems thinking, values-driven work and so much more.
Kirsten Diprose: 2:29
I sat down with Maz both of us as interviewees with the ARLF's podcast host, Claire Delahunty. She's another great rural woman who has a lovely interview style that I know you'll enjoy. I couldn't resist, though, so I kicked things off. Know you'll enjoy. I couldn't resist, though, so I kicked things off. Claire, can you please introduce yourself for the Ducks on the Pond listeners who may not know you yet?
Claire Delahunty: 2:51
Thank you, kirsten. We're so excited to be collaborating with you. So that's right, I'm Claire. I host Rural Leadership Unearthed, but I usually describe myself as a writer. My background is in print and online journalism.
Claire Delahunty: 3:05
I started out as a business journalist in Melbourne and I realised that the only stories I liked were about soft commodities.
Claire Delahunty: 3:11
So then I hopped on over to work from the Stockland newspaper office in Victoria and I had a great stint there, and then I took off to the Northern Territory to do a bit of reporting for the newspaper in Catherine, then moved pretty soon after to Canberra where I started working with the Australian Rural Leadership Foundation in their comms team, which was a fantastic gig, and around the time that Matt Linegar came on as CEO, I was off with my husband on a posting to Singapore and he said no worries, keep going, keep working with us. So I've been pretty much enjoying an unbroken decade of getting to chat to alumni of ARLF programs and hear about their incredible leadership stories, including Kath. I've had the pleasure of chatting to you a few times about your amazing work, and I'm currently based back in country Victoria, close to where I grew up, and I am living here with my family, which includes my husband and two little girls, who are five and a half and two and a half and keep me very busy.
Kirsten Diprose: 4:11
And I suppose, for your audience, who may not know me, I'm doing the ARLP, I suppose is a good way to start the program, and I should say this is not a paid collaboration. It just is something that I think is going to be fun and makes a lot of sense. And so, yeah, I'm in the middle of the program, which has been absolutely amazing so far. Other than that, I have my own podcasting company, so my mission is to empower rural people to tell their own story. So it's really about getting organizations and individuals who live in rural Australia to set up podcasting on whatever they like, whatever they're into, because I think it's really important that we share our stories, because city people can get it wrong. It's not their fault.
Kirsten Diprose: 4:55
I was a city girl, grew up in Sydney, had no idea about farming and agriculture, moved to Melbourne where I was a journalist for the ABC, living a very sort of city life. I thought I was going in one direction and then I met a farmer. So I fell in love and moved to southwest Victoria. So I'm on a sheep and cropping property and I've continued my journalism career for quite a while, but now I've stepped out on my own and, like I said, I've kind of more into the powers of storytelling and we could talk about this because we're talking about advocacy, but from solutions journalism to advocacy journalism to just yeah, storytelling and how it can be used. But we need to welcome our amazing guest, Catherine Marriott, who I've been trying to get on my podcast for three years, rope during, because she can't say no, because she's an ARLP alumni.
Catherine Marriott: 5:52
So, yeah, it's lovely to be with you ladies. I've admired both of you from afar for quite some time now, and so, by way of background, I have always worked in value creation for agricultural industries and rural communities. So basically what that means is identifying or looking at where the gaps are and then creating opportunities out of those gaps by bringing awesome people together and developing collaborative partnerships. So I've been very blessed. I've worked in the northern beef industry, in the southern grain sector, I've worked throughout Southeast Asia and more recently, have just returned to Australia, so I'm currently homeless, unlike you, two lovely ladies here. I am waiting to move into an apartment that I've purchased in Canberra and will be spending half of my year between Canberra and up in Broome where I'm doing some ESG work for a large pastoral house, which is very exciting.
Claire Delahunty: 6:44
So I did want to go back, actually for both of you. Given we're talking about advocacy, I wanted to ask you about how it was for you in your early years in terms of speaking up. When did you first think about advocacy and think you could speak about something and represent something? How natural was it for both of you. We might start with you, kath.
Catherine Marriott: 7:05
Thank you very much, claire. Yeah, I think I have always been someone who's really determined to leave the planet a better place, and I think that comes from growing up with a mum who is very values driven. And so the first opportunity, actually the very first time I was an advocate, I was in year eight boarding school and the food was terrible. So me and one of my best friends from high school got all of the boarders together, the girls and the boys, right from year seven to year 12. And we asked everybody just do a walkthrough because you had to go to dinner. And so we got everybody just do a walkthrough because you had to go to dinner. And so we got everybody to do a walkthrough. So these poor people in the kitchen were just standing there with this god awful food and because we wanted to draw attention to the fact that the food was terrible and we needed to live here Anyway. So that was quite funny. We got in so much trouble but the food changed and the food increased.
Catherine Marriott: 8:03
So I suppose that was my very first advocacy piece was when I was about 13. But then, following that, one of the major pieces was following the live export suspension and I looked at what happened and I thought how did this happen and why did it happen and what could I do about it? And advocacy is quite scary, right, because you're putting yourself out on a pillar and you're taking a stand on something, and I know that people don't like the live export industry, but it was something that I'd worked in for five years and I was really passionate about it. So for me, the fear of being criticized or having people say awful things about me was less than my determination to make a difference. So I figured that I was not actually as important as the issue and therefore I was happy to use my voice to make a difference to those people that I cared about, which was the people in the Northern beef industry and the Indonesian lot feeders that had been impacted.
Claire Delahunty: 9:00
And was part of the scary part of that, catherine, dealing with media that you, as you said, it's not an industry that always gets friendly coverage Were you averse to. It's such a fraught space to step into such an emotional space.
Catherine Marriott: 9:15
Absolutely. I think one of the biggest things when you step into a space and you take a stand on something is a fear of judgment, and I think that's a human condition we all like to most of us, I certainly to be liked, and the realization that there was going to be people that didn't like me was quite daunting. And it's really interesting as you break that down, as you get older and you think, oh well, I don't like people, not everyone's going to like me. So you get quite pragmatic about it. But, as you, when I was younger, it was terrifying having people judge me all of a sudden. Being in a more public space and people knowing you that you don't know them and what are they saying about you. So you get all this internal dialogue, but for me, the thing that drove me and has always driven me is to make a difference in people's lives where I think I can.
Claire Delahunty: 10:01
Kirsten, can you relate to?
Kirsten Diprose: 10:03
that. Yeah, on some of those points, absolutely I was thinking of my first advocacy attempts. In high school I joined the I think it was just me really in it the Amnesty International Human Rights Group. I wrote a letter to John Howard when I was 15 against immigration detention and he wrote back. I mean the signature wasn't done personally, but I was pretty stoked and it was addressed, I think because I was a 15-year-old. I think someone at parliament thought oh, isn't that sweet. We'll write back to her and tell her that's great that you're interested in these sorts of things. But no, we're not going to do anything about it.
Kirsten Diprose: 10:41
And then, I suppose in year 10, we really needed an English extension. So we have this English teacher who no one really liked. He was a bit strange and wasn't the best teacher, but he was really passionate about Shakespeare. Anyway, he set this unreasonable assignment and we were all trying to complain and say this is not, we can't do it, this is ridiculous and he wouldn't have a bar of it. So then I wrote a poem in iambic pentameter, which is a Shakespearean sort of thing on the board, as to why we needed a extension and he granted it because of that. There you go. Your nerdy qualities can sometimes win out and he granted it because of that. There you go. Your nerdy qualities can sometimes win out. Not in many other areas of my life Didn't help with the boys, but it's okay in English. She got me far. It's a creative approach. Yeah, that's right, a creative approach. But it's funny reflecting on that and particularly doing ARLP. Now it's about what action is going to serve me best in this scenario. Clearly, if I'm going to talk to a bunch of farmers which I do now probably not going to pull out the iambic pentameter in that situation.
Kirsten Diprose: 11:51
But I think my career led me to being a journalist, which I decided at age 16, that's what I really wanted to do, and I was going to work for the ABC and that worked out for me and we got a cadetship when I was 21 and that involved having to move from Western Sydney, where I grew up, to Melbourne and I really loved Melbourne, so I was quite happy there. But I suppose when you're a journalist and especially back then because journalism and what is journalism has, I think, changed in the past 20 years it was very much about objectivity, balance, and the focus was on always getting both sides, not putting your viewpoint in there, facts only all of those things. And I remember doing a story when I was a cadet journalist and it was so tough because I couldn't find the truth. It was a story in African community in Melbourne and the police had arrived and the police had basically put out a statement saying that 200 youths, as they called them, were throwing rocks and had come down and went out to that community and they had a completely different story, could not get either side to meet. And it was at that point I started realizing hold on, sometimes truth can be a little bit more complicated than that and I had to really report just a kind of he said, she said side of things, trying to get that balance but realizing that there was no gospel truth on what had really happened here.
Kirsten Diprose: 13:20
And yeah, I suppose that throughout, throughout journalism, I couldn't be an advocate in many ways because I was playing that role of trying to deliver you the best news in the time that you have to actually gather it. That is free from opinion and free from what have you. But then I left the ABC officially in 2020, but I still come back as a presenter, which is great, and again I still don't. And again, I have to be really careful in that I don't have big political views, but that suits me fine because I like trying to look at an issue and going okay, if there is an injustice, I don't want to see it through the view of an ideology. I want to see it through the lens of how can we make something better and how can we make people's lives better.
Kirsten Diprose: 14:07
But I think advocacy has always been there for me and I returned to it after sort of journalism and journalism's returning to it more so these days in things called solutions journalism, so where we know that people are tired of the bad news in the media, of just telling us what's wrong and not saying how can we fix it. Or hey, this group has done a really great job, maybe we can learn something. So there are other styles of journalism that are being funded and investigated to just to do things differently. I just think the objectivity myth has been busted. That doesn't mean we can have a free-for-all and just publish whatever, but let's just stop focusing on the if it bleeds, it leads which is what I was told when I started in journalism and think about it in a different way.
Claire Delahunty: 15:00
I can relate. I've definitely been told to go into a story and try to get tears, which is a terrible thing to be told when you're a young journalist.
Kirsten Diprose: 15:08
Oh, definitely.
Claire Delahunty: 15:11
So solutions, journalism it's such an interesting thing to hear about Kirsten and the changing platforms. I'm sure intersect with that the ways we have to talk about things and advocate for things and get our message out. How have you both found the landscape has changed in your time of speaking up?
Catherine Marriott: 15:26
It's been really interesting because we now live in a world of masses of communicators, so we used to have mass communication through the newspaper and the telly and now, all of a sudden, every human on the planet is a communicator and has access to create influence. So what that means when you are strategizing on how to become a better advocate, is you've got to understand your audience first and foremost. You've got to also be really clear on the values that drive. What it is that you're trying to say, and why I say values is because people can relate to values and, as Kirsten's just very articulately said, what is the truth? And so quite often in agriculture, we will go back to back ourselves with science, and yet the other side has just as much science to prove you wrong. And the example I'll give you is I eat meat. I I really enjoy meat, and one of my friends is a vegan, and so I will send her all this information about how red meat is necessary for brain development and how it's really good for, basically, general health, and she will send me back all of this research which is done by scientists and peer reviewed, saying that no, vegan is the best lifestyle and it's got more longevity. So where does the truth actually sit? We can't really agree on it.
Catherine Marriott: 16:48
What we can agree on is values, and what I mean by that is what do we care about? And if you can connect with humans because you care about similar things, you've actually then got the basis for a conversation. Because if you come at it with what you think or science and somebody doesn't agree, you've lost the opportunity to influence. So if you can connect on a values base by understanding the live export I'll give you the example the live export industry. When I was up there, people were worried about animal welfare and yet the industry responded at the start and we learned very quickly. But at the start with an economic rationalism. Now that was never going to work, because it's like somebody asking what's the score in the tennis and you're saying I don't know, but here's what I know about golf. So you're not addressing what they're worried about or what they're asking. So we've got to really sit and listen to what the consumer or the general public is concerned about and what's actually behind what they're saying. Connect there and then you've got an opportunity to influence.
Claire Delahunty: 17:47
Kirsten, your experience of this, bringing your urban roots and getting to know very well a rural community and rural sector that must have been. You must have two little voices in your head sometimes who can see both sides.
Kirsten Diprose: 18:01
Yeah, and it's interesting hearing that. That meat one is a great example, and I've certainly done a lot of writing and research in the space of is red meat good for the planet or not? And you can argue it both ways, because it all depends, right, it depends on the food system and all those other things. You can't just say yes or no and, interestingly, my best friend is also vegan. We would never share anything like that with each other and we respect how we both eat. I eat meat and I think it comes to the value of. You have the right to choose what you eat, just as I do. And when she comes over, I say, hey, I'm thinking of cooking this and I'll cook a nice vegan meal for her. And there's no judgment.
Kirsten Diprose: 18:46
I don't know why people think, yeah, you can't be friends, you absolutely can. So I suppose, coming from an urban background, when you see misinformation from some circles who have a really strong political agenda, and even coming from a comms background, I can see what they're doing. They're being really strategic in their campaigning. They've got this message and it's trying to really injure the agriculture system. Your average person in the city has nothing against agriculture. They don't really think about it much, but they're not sitting there thinking we must destroy the agriculture industry. Not at all.
Kirsten Diprose: 19:27
Most people love farmers, respect farmers, don't really know what they do, they can't properly picture it, but absolutely think farmers are great. They think their lives are hard always, which is what I get when I come back. They think that my life must just be so hard and I say, no, I'm really happy, I really love living on the land. Sometimes it's hard but it's. You take the bad with the good and there's a lot of good. So when it comes to advocating for the truth, once you can get it to the majority and say actually, those pictures of the skinny sheep is not the reality for 99.9% of farms.
Kirsten Diprose: 20:05
That picture is five years old, taken at. The pictures of the skinny sheep is not the reality for 99.9% of farms. That picture is five years old, taken at the end of the millennial drought and then just being used for this animal activist's purpose. It's not actually reality. And then you tell them about it and they go oh okay, I didn't know that. So I think for us having the benefit of the doubt is huge with people in the city. Like I said, most people in the city are reasonable, nice, great people, just like people in the country, absolutely yeah.
Claire Delahunty: 20:31
There's a lot more common ground, I think, than is assumed and a lot of people in Ag I'm hearing talk about that. There isn't a city-country divide. It's just a matter of better storytelling and more opportunities to connect as people on both sides, and I'd say you've definitely been doing your share of legwork on this, kath.
Catherine Marriott: 20:55
Yeah, that urban-rural divide statement really bothers me.
Catherine Marriott: 21:00
And the reason that it bothers me is not because there's one there, because I think there is, but I think there's divides and increasing divides across subsects of society. We used to not know which way people voted. We're getting many different little subsects of society. I think what bothers me about that urban-rural divide piece is it reiterates that there's a problem rather than having us focused on how do we actually bring people together and create solutions for that. I think social media has been a blessing and a curse. I'm not on much of it anymore just because I don't have the brain space to engage in it. I'd rather engage in platforms that I can get two key influences with. So I'm on LinkedIn and I'm on Instagram, largely for the lols memes that my mates send me. But I think there's a lot of noise out there.
Kirsten Diprose: 21:52
But I think your point about social media is really interesting. I'm trying to view things more through the lens of impact rather than likes, essentially, totally. And likes wasn't a thing until social media. But, coming from that media background, everything was measured in terms of how many people read it, how many people clicked on it. And that's actually not the game. And I've got to tell myself that the game is about impact. Does this actually create the change I'm seeking? Find the people that need to hear it. It's not about how many people saw it like the vanity. It's not the vanity metric, it's an impact metric. I'm still trying to flick my brain there. I'm not there 100% of the time. I know I need to be, but I need to just train it.
Catherine Marriott: 22:39
Yeah, it is really hard too, because you don't ever know the impact that you've had on somebody. And so social media, like I've had people say to me you know, I saw that post you did on endometriosis and I'm like oh what, and that actually changed my daughter's, best friend's daughter's life because you spoke about that. I think, like what I try and do is keep my communication impactful. I questioned whether or not to speak about endometriosis on LinkedIn but I thought and again it was one of those sort of like mini advocacy moments I guess you could say whereby I thought I've been through hell with this because nobody spoke about it.
Catherine Marriott: 23:17
And I'm a somebody and I'm not a massive somebody, but if I can make a difference to one person's life, then it's worth putting a little post out there just talking about what my symptoms were, what I was now facing because the medical profession was not investing in enough research, because it was a women's problem and most of the researchers back in the day were blokes. I'm constantly surprised at you pop something up there and you might be a little brain fart from today or whatever, and then, like years later, somebody will pop up and just say I really resonated with what you wrote here you're like oh that's really lovely that you've moved the needle for somebody on something that matters to them.
Claire Delahunty: 23:56
This is so interesting because I love that you both led with anecdotes about your teenage years, when you have boundless energy to be having a say on pretty much anything and everything that you care about. But that impact piece means you get better and better at conserving your energy and putting your message out where it really matters and matters to you. I'd love to know perhaps how your experiences with leadership development, with honing that sort of side of your skill set, might have helped you make those decisions about what you're going to speak about. Kirsten, do you want to start the?
Kirsten Diprose: 24:31
first thing that popped into my head was how I really didn't think I should have a voice in agriculture for quite a time, because I came to the farm and knew nothing and I still I'm certainly not an expert in farming, Don't hire me to come to your farm and give you advice about how you should be planting something. But then I must have started questioning that at some level, I don't know when I started a blog. So before I started podcasting I had a blog and was like hold on, there's a whole heap of us who married farmers and moved to a farm and knew nothing, and then we often had a child straight away, and so that kind of pops you in the home sphere because you've got young children. It's just can be really hard to get out on the farm. And that was very much my life for the first five years on the farm and I thought why is that invalid Just because I'm not moving the sheep and harvesting the crops? No, actually we have a role in agriculture and it was just looking at rural life through that lens, which is the experience of many women not all, of course, but that kind of got me to write from that perspective and just found it just really resonated with people.
Kirsten Diprose: 25:48
And I started by just by being funny and silly and writing about mystery meat, which was my horror experiences of pulling something out of the freezer and not knowing what it was. And once I defrosted something and I swore it was a pig's head. I couldn't deal with it because it had hair and everything and I called my husband and he wasn't around. So then my father-in-law came around and he opened it and it wasn't a pig's head, it was a leg of a pig, but just the shape of it looked like a head and it had all scrunched up skin and the hair on it. So he burnt the hair off with a lighter I'm sorry if anyone's squeamish and then I said it looked more like meat from the supermarket than I could actually cook it. So like it started by just being a bit silly and having fun and it resonated with people.
Kirsten Diprose: 26:40
Then, later in 2021, we started Ducks on the Pond and we actually delve into much more serious issues. We still have a bit of fun and laugh a lot, but we do look at some of those underrepresented issues. Haven't done endometriosis Maz, but we should. We've done periods and pelvic floors, doing perimenopause next season, lining that up, but we certainly do look at women's health. We've done periods and pelvic floors, doing perimenopause next season, lining that up, but we certainly do look at women's health. We've done access to fertility options, lack of access to abortion and other women's health facilities and what that means in country Australia. So that, I suppose, is my leadership piece in saying, okay, this stuff doesn't get talked about and it's not thought about when we think about rural and agriculture, but it's the experience of so many and it's just as valid as ag markets and farming practices. It's just as important.
Claire Delahunty: 27:35
Yeah, absolutely. There's more to life on the land than the primary producer role that we all think about, isn't there, kath, would it be fair to say you're increasingly selective about where your energy goes and what's helped you make the funnel of what you're going to put your valuable time into?
Catherine Marriott: 27:53
Yeah, it is 100%, mostly because I'm getting old and I'm tired, but yeah. So I first and foremost think about what I care about, and I care about agriculture in Australia and particularly farmers, and making sure that we are supporting farmers post-Farmgate to make sure that decisions that are made post-Farmgate are actually implementable and practical for farmers. I'm really passionate about rural women and have always been and will always be, and I'm also really passionate about developing country work and, in particular, food security and food systems and the interrelationship geopolitically with what impacts that, etc. I guess in life as you get older, you get asked to do lots more things and I've got an unapologetic no. So if somebody asks me to do something, I focus on my energy and if my energy lifts and I'm like, oh, that would be so cool, then it's a very solid yes.
Catherine Marriott: 28:50
But if somebody asks me to do something and I'm like, oh well, if there's that pause, it's just an absolute no. So I don't have a oh, I could potentially fit that in, or maybe I should. I think we often do should in rural communities and we'll probably outside rural communities as well, where we feel obliged to do things. But feeling obliged leads to burnout and I'm the queen of that. So I've got much more protective with my energy and where my passion lies. I'm going to find it easier to have impact with less energy because I'm not fighting myself to get there.
Kirsten Diprose: 29:27
I still struggle to say no, but I'm really trying to fence in what I do as a volunteer and make that clear. You know, I'm the president of my local hall. I'll be that for life, so I'm like that's my volunteerism and that's largely enough. And also I think in my line of work I have to draw that line as well, because people want you to do things, sometimes for free. They think, oh, can you do a podcast for us or can you? And it's I would love to, but I just I can't, it's my business and I'm flat chat fitting in people for my business, let alone using my skills for free and blurring those lines, even when I'm really passionate about something and really think, oh yes, absolutely. I've had to grow that courage to say, look, yes, that's a great project, happy to help you, that is my skill set and I'm happy to give you a quote for it.
Catherine Marriott: 30:25
I love that, kirsten, and I think one of the things that I realized, because when I first started Influential Women, which was a leadership company to build capacity, confidence and skills in rural women to stand beside their bloke so we could all lead the sector together, because we were ultimately missing out on 50% of the brains trust, and I did two years of work, basically volunteer, and that's because I felt like I owed somebody something. Anyway, that's a whole nother story, but what I realised after burnout number about six at the age of 24, no, just joking was that when you get asked to volunteer, it either costs you or it costs them, and I got sick of it costing me. So I now have got I'll do two volunteer speaking gigs a year because I get asked to speak a lot for free. And then when people say, oh, you've written speeches before, just deliver one of those.
Catherine Marriott: 31:15
I have never delivered the same speech twice because the issues are slightly different. You've got to keep it contemporary, the audience is going to be different, the context is different and I put at least 12 hours into every speech I give. I've never done a speech unprepared and so to value your time, I think the older, it costs you, or it costs them and I'm done with it costing me, like it costs me or it costs them. That's quite a powerful little tool to be. The other thing that I do is refer people on and just say, look, I can't do this for you, but here's 13 other women that I reckon would be amazing for you. And then that's a way of paying it forward and giving other people exposure, which is also something that's pretty cool, and for me, I've got to the stage in life where my mental and physical health is more important than being rich. But that's just a personal thing.
Kirsten Diprose: 32:05
It's interesting that you say that, as in what's driving you and when you say you know it costs you or it costs them. When it's costing you, you know I don't want it to be costing time with my kids and my family and I work flexibly so that I can go to my kids' events and pick them up from sport and those things. I don't know why, where this comes from, I'm like you can diagnose me, both of you but I still feel like I need to prove my worth and I don't know why. And that's what it's about. It's not about money, and it's cool if it is about money, by the way, because I feel like, as women, we're not allowed to want money. It's not about money. It's about, probably, ego, right, and that's not a good thing. So I guess that's what I have to talk to myself and my little crazy internal monologues in my head. Is this your ego? Crazy internal monologues in my head. Is this your ego? Because you want to be this big, whatever, is that important?
Claire Delahunty: 33:08
Will it have impact? Are you sacrificing family? It's as good a way as any, and beside that, ego is usually a very healthy inner critic. I think Most of us can relate to that. So you've got to find a balance there. I was going to ask both of you about the flip side of all this sort of giving of energy and making sure you're speaking out and representing what you're passionate about. You've both made decisions quite strategically to invest in some professional development, some leadership development, in quite a few different ways. How have you made those decisions and what have you been seeking, kath? Do you want to start off there?
Catherine Marriott: 33:38
Yeah, sure. So if I look back on my life, I've done a large capacity building thing every 10 years. And there's this saying and this isn't an arrogance thing from me at all, but there's a saying which I love, which is if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. And so at every stage when I've done a leadership development piece, it's when I'm desperate to learn and grow and not know all the things and not be the person that people come to know all the things. And so the first one that I did was the Marcus Oldham Rural Leadership Program, which was amazing and it really helps you to understand and be okay with the fact that you don't have all the answers, so it puts you on a growth trajectory.
Catherine Marriott: 34:27
Then I was very blessed to be part of the Australian Rural Leadership Program in 2010-11. And that just kicked me. That kicked me to the curb in all the right ways. It made me question, it made me grow. My confidence dipped, my confidence grew. I was confused, but you need to go there and you need to do the work.
Catherine Marriott: 34:49
Because I did, because I was so passionate about contributing and I was so acutely aware of the fact that I didn't have all the answers and I was desperate to be surrounded by really smart people that were going to push back on me, that were going to increase my awareness of the impact that I had on people, of increasing my knowledge on how I could be more impactful. And then again, most recently, 10 years later I've just lucky enough to be on my Nuffield Australia scholarship, which again came from the fact that I'd been working for 10 years I sort of became like comfortable and that's what it is, it's actually comfortable and I was chasing uncomfortable again and I really wanted to be pushed outside my comfort zone, surrounded by really smart people who challenge your thinking and do things differently. Because I think if you don't go through some capacity building and I've always chosen really well-respected organisations to do it with but if you sit in your comfort zone and you're not actually growing, you lose the capacity to have impact, and having impact is what's driven me my entire life.
Claire Delahunty: 35:55
Yeah.
Kirsten Diprose: 35:56
No one likes the process of getting out of your comfort zone, but what happens at the end of it growing is what you like, and there was life begins at the end of your comfort zone and I think that's so true and there's lots of quotes around that step so far outside of your comfort zone that you forget how to get back. And when I moved to a rural area it was well out of my comfort zone. So, yes, living in a rural setting, but also it opened up my thought process to business and what it's like to be part of a business and understanding how businesses work. I felt like I grew up to get a job. Essentially, the idea of having your own business or being part of a business was foreign to me. It's not something that I would have ever considered. So I actually, before doing ARLP, I suppose the first official leadership development course I did was the observership program, which was really fantastic and it's for young I say young-ish people, people aged 25 to 40. And you get to observe a board and you do a sort of version of the AICD course, a sort of abridged version. You don't come up with a qualification, but you get a bit of an education in that and you get to observe a board and it was a fantastic program and I observed the Southwest TAFE board, which is the TAFE near me, and then at the end of that year, a job. There was a director position and I wasn't going to go for it but then I thought, oh, why not, they can say no. So I, yeah, I applied and I was successful and now I'm the deputy chair and it was five years ago from that program. So you just never know and it's opened up a whole new world and interest, like who'd have thought.
Kirsten Diprose: 37:40
I really love governance. It's really interesting to me and it's unlocked a new way of thinking about impact and advocacy. And when I joined the board, there were just some really great people on there and there still are who I have learned from, who I've been mentored by, to see how they can affect change from up the top. I think all levels of change are really important, so grassroots is incredibly important, but how a really well-written policy can influence culture can then influence all the way down, and witnessing that over time has been it's been a really big thing for me and just also understanding that change takes time.
Kirsten Diprose: 38:26
I'm someone who likes to get in there and get things done and want it done tomorrow. But actually meaningful change takes time and it happens in increments, and to be okay with that and when you can see it happening on the trajectory, that's actually really exciting. So that was the first one I did. And then, yeah, I'm in the middle of ARLP now and I can't say I've like had some transformational moment yet, but maybe it happens. When does it happen, Kath? Like when am I going to be a new person?
Catherine Marriott: 38:58
It's about three years after you finish. Oh really, yeah, yeah, cause you do all this amazing learning, you have extraordinary facilitators and educators and colleagues cohort and then like it all, and because life's busy and yeah, there was a few like key learnings that I still laugh at, because I'm like, ah, yes, you're making an assumption again, aren't you? You should never assume, but yeah, so no, look forward to that, and it's different for everybody, right?
Kirsten Diprose: 39:32
Oh yeah, it's so different for everyone from just talking to my cohort and it's been valuable and there have been things that I've taken away already absolutely. And it's been valuable and there have been things that I've taken away already absolutely. But it's funny, Kath, because I'd seen ARLP and had thought about it in the past and wasn't ready because of the age of my kids and other things. But it was when you posted on LinkedIn that you'd done it and it was amazing and I thought, well, you're amazing, so maybe it's because of ARLP, I'll go and do ARLP or I'll apply for it.
Catherine Marriott: 40:04
Oh, bless you, kirsten, that's lovely. Well, the ARLP largely shaped who I am Like. It was just the most extraordinary program. I can unequivocally hand on heart say I would not be the person I am today without that opportunity. It bred a humility, a generosity and a humanity to someone who, when I was younger, was quite a driven little upstart who thought I had all the answers. And it's quite refreshing to understand.
Claire Delahunty: 40:31
You don't and you don't have to, and no one else does either Everybody's pretending we should say, kath, that you've become more and more involved with the foundation and with working with them, which you're doing now. Really, do you want to talk a bit about? Let's get a little technical on the leadership side. We were talking, before we started recording, about systems thinking, something that I hear floating around all the time. But, as I was saying, what does it actually mean? What have you learned in terms of that technical side of leadership? What does it actually mean?
Catherine Marriott: 41:00
What have you learned in terms of that technical side of leadership. So I'm not a technical person, I'm a scientist, right, but I'm not a technical person, and so I actually learned very recently that systems thinking there's models and theories and all of this stuff behind it, and for me, systems thinking is quite simple, and it occurs to me that, particularly in agriculture, we will be hit with an activist with a single issue agenda, whether or not it's ban the cows because of carbon, or ban the sheep and pigs and chickens because we want to be vegan and it's better for the planet, or ban hormones or whatever it is, but there's always a single issue that we get hit with. And agriculture, particularly, is an interconnected, complex system. So when you make a change to one thing, it's really important that you pause and think about what is that one thing going to impact? And I will think about that from an environmental perspective, from a people perspective, from an economic perspective. From a people perspective, from an economic perspective, from a cultural perspective, from a technological perspective. What advocacy or legislative stuff is going to be needing to be considered? So that I'm trying to actually understand that, if we all quit all livestock in Australia, what impact is that going to have on food security, on the use of chemicals and monocrops required to fill the protein gap. The fact that, on arable, like, you can't grow crops on more than 7% of Australia's landmass, but you can grow livestock across it and, as a result of that, the landscapes are managed, so we get better outcomes from the environment.
Catherine Marriott: 42:36
So it's about actually understanding the complex interconnected systems that we're working within and, instead of being single issue and siloed and you're thinking that, oh, this is a band-aid that's going to fix this, how do we actually take a step back and think about all of the aspects of that system that is surrounding this one key point and then coming up with a more well-thought, holistic solution, rather than just fixing this through a sudden knee-jerk reaction? It almost speaks to the technical versus adaptive problems. So we're used to dealing with challenges with a technical solution and with adaptive challenges they're much more long-term. So adaptive challenges is something like climate change. You're not going to fix that overnight because I don't know people, environment, geopolitics, war, climate there's all sorts of things that are impacting that climate change conversation.
Catherine Marriott: 43:33
We've been talking about that for 20 years. Realistically, we're going to be talking about it for probably another 50 because there's not a single solution that we can go yep, if we put that in place, everything's going to be fixed. It's just not the world that we live in, and to be able to understand and be conscious of the difference between a technical challenge and I can't think of one off the top of my head but fixing my computer, fixing the header, is a technical challenge Fixing the header is a technical challenge and we come at things like climate change, housing crisis in rural and regional Australia, education, alcohol and drug abuse.
Catherine Marriott: 44:08
We come at those adaptive, long-term challenges with technical solutions and then wonder why they don't work.
Kirsten Diprose: 44:15
And I like your systems analogy and I like to think of it. So the agriculture system is a large system, but there are systems within systems right as well, that are also operating and interacting with each other.
Catherine Marriott: 44:30
Yeah, the other example that I'll give you with where we can get into a pickle without systems thinking is the whole ESG landscape and and so in developing developed world we're largely focused on E and environment, and that's at the expense of social outcomes and economics, obviously, and economics I consider part of the governance framework. So you can't be green if you're in the red. So any environmental solutions, you've got to be able to afford to do them. I think it's so important in that bring farmers into the table where the conversations are happening early, because a lot of these sorts of conversations happen post farm gate without farmers, and yet farmers are the ones that have to implement what's being talked about. So if you bring farmers in, they understand the systems on the land, and this is in an agriculture context You're going to, in the longer term, save a whole heap of trouble because the system's going to be well built from the bottom up at the start.
Kirsten Diprose: 45:32
Farmers, though, can be hard to bring in because they're busy and because there's so much distrust with government in terms of their involvement of farmers, because in the past it has been very superficial, I think, and projects will happen anyway, sometimes without them. I just think that there's a really difficult piece there, and I can understand why farmers are often reluctant to say get involved, if they know it's a sort of bureaucratic tick box exercise, which sometimes it can be.
Catherine Marriott: 46:08
Yeah, a hundred percent, kirsten. And what I would add to that is you need to make sure that the engagement is valuable for them and that there's outcome. So I'll never go into a meeting without a defined outcome, because I'm not going to waste my time and I certainly wouldn't expect farmers to. And also, where does the balance of power sit in decision-making? Because if the decision's been made, don't waste your time. Honestly, why would you bother? But if you can engage in a process where you have genuine input and you're valued, I think I know that you would get farmers engaged. But you've got to understand the outcome and you've got to understand where the power balance sits so that they have genuine influence.
Kirsten Diprose: 46:47
The game of politics, the whole kicking the can down the road and you think another consultation, another, whatever it is, so that someone doesn't have to make a decision, whatever it is, so that someone doesn't have to make a decision and I think that's important sort of piece to leadership as well is to either recognize when that's happening or make sure you're not part of that process. Like I said, I want to be in positions where I can have impact and if I can't change the scenario so that impact is happening and I'm a part of it, then I'll leave Like I've just drawn the line and I've had to with a few things in my sort of career or even volunteering, to say you know what, the way that the system currently is, I'm just going to run around in circles until I burn out or cry, fall in a heap. It's never going to change.
Catherine Marriott: 47:43
I support that 100% and I think, if you're not sure where something is going, think about some critical questions that you can ask, and if the answer is no to those critical questions, are we going to get an outcome in the next three months? I can't think of them off the top of my head. My friend, lizzie Brennan, is very good at thinking about questions. Think of some crucial questions that you can ask yourself, and if the answer's no, you're not going to see where you can have impact.
Claire Delahunty: 48:05
Get out early, don't waste your time To get a bit nerdy and close this out a little bit. I think the word advocate I was reading first arose as a noun in about the 12th century, and it was literally a role in the context of the legal system to speak for someone else. So today, with this massive space of advocacy, how do you both go about deciding when it is your job to speak, when it might not be, and then how do you not only make room for others to speak, but make sure that they're there and those voices will be coming through Great?
Kirsten Diprose: 48:41
question. I've been really thinking a lot about allyship and I think ARLP has actually got me thinking a bit more about that. How can you be an ally Particularly? You know, there are whole lots of things I don't know about and a whole lots of things that I don't have a first person experience about, and I suppose Indigenous Australia is one of those things, and you can be in positions where you think, oh well, you know, I don't want to speak about that because I don't have any first-hand experience.
Kirsten Diprose: 49:11
Plenty of other people do and they should speak. But then it's like well, how can I be an ally and use my power from being a white woman, from having a little bit of a platform, to be a useful ally and put others forward who do have that knowledge, who should be speaking on those things, but in a way that is about them and how they would like it, not about how you think they would like it. Again, assumptions, and I find that when it's something that's very culturally different to you and disability is another one don't assume how they would like to be on the platform or if they want to be at all. But I'm trying to understand and investigate how can I be a better ally to people who perhaps don't have as much of a voice.
Catherine Marriott: 49:59
Yeah, and I think it's a really good question, because I still would innately, and I guess the first thing that I would think about is somebody filling the gap, and if there is, that's wonderful and that's and it's they're doing a good job. I don't need to intrude on that. What I will do is pick up the phone behind closed doors a lot, and that's particularly for political advocacy. So I stay in touch with politicians from state and federal government on all sides of politics, purely for the benefit of letting them know what's actually happening in the real world. I never ask for anything. I've never asked for anything from a politician, but I think they really value untied and unbiased information. So I do a lot of my advocacy behind closed doors and that's where I prefer to be. However, if there is something that really matters and nobody else is stepping up and I'm scared, I will take the opportunity to have a voice and see what happens.
Catherine Marriott: 51:06
But the other thing that I will more often than not do is try and bring people along or put people in the fore that I think would do a better job than me, which is many people, but I'm conscious of balancing that with. I don't want them in the fire Like if they're not comfortable being in the firing line. I would never put anybody in the firing line, because having been in the firing line when you don't really want to be, it's a pretty terrifying experience. But again, it's important that I understand that. I'm happy with that, but a lot of people aren't, and the other thing that I'll do is identify thought leaders that aren't necessarily yet well-known and encourage them to be part of the conversation, and I really loved what you said about allyship. I think that's a really powerful position and everybody can do that. You don't need to be a leader, but to stand beside people while they actually fight for things that matter, I think is a really powerful piece people while they actually fight for things that matter.
Kirsten Diprose: 52:02
I think is a really powerful piece. At the start you mentioned how you're very values driven and I would say I'm the same. But do you have any reflection on why? Because I really get can be personally invested if something is hitting against my values, if I think something's wrong like it really affects me, and I think why am I having such a visceral reaction to this and do you have any insights into why you're so values driven?
Catherine Marriott: 52:28
that is probably one of the best questions that I've ever been asked. Kirsten, seriously, I mean the right job.
Catherine Marriott: 52:35
Yeah, yeah, you've nailed it. Both of you have, because I don't probably one of the best questions that I've ever been asked, kirsten, seriously, I mean the right job. Yeah, yeah, you've nailed it. Both of you have, because I don't. I couldn't give you a straight answer.
Catherine Marriott: 52:44
The only thing that I can think of is that I grew up in, so we lost dad when we were really young and we were five, six, seven and nine years old when dad died and so, as a result, grew up with a mum who is so ethical and values-based and I'm really glad that I had mum as a mum, because she instilled in me a care and a generosity and an intellect or I don't know if I'm intellectual, that sounds a bit weird an essence to care about things, particularly that are bigger than me. So there's a selflessness. Mum is one of the least selfish people on the planet. I think our values really built in us from a very young age and I grew up with a mum who really cared about the planet. My dad passed away when he was 40. He actually wrote us all a letter that we opened when we were 21. And he spoke about the need to care for the planet, care for the waterways, care for the animals, and this is in 1990. So he spoke in that letter about reducing chemical inputs and synthetic inputs and trying to find different systems approaches to things.
Catherine Marriott: 54:04
Although I don't remember dad, his ethos was quite generous, holistic and really caring for people on the planet, and then mom definitely carried that through. So I feel really blessed and privileged that I just happened to be born into a family that cares about things that are bigger than us, and I'm so with you in the guttural response when people don't care, and I've had to manage that internally because it can be quite distressing if you get too far into it. So I focus on what I can influence and try and put my energy into that. But it's a really interesting question. Kirsten, I'm interested in your thoughts and I'm actually interested in Claire's as well. Are you allowed to ask the podcaster a question? But I'd really like to hear from both of you where does your values base come from?
Kirsten Diprose: 54:52
Yeah, I don't think I have an easy answer for it either, maz. I lost my dad too as a kid, so I don't remember him either. So I was two and mum always says he was really values driven. And she'll say to me I can see that in you when she'll listen to me on the phone going, oh this, having to work, and I just don't understand because we've got to get this done because that's how it will change this. And she'll just say people don't care as much sometimes. You've just got to be okay with that. My mum's certainly a very ethical person, but I wouldn't say she's super values driven. Like she was a special ed teacher for year one and two kids that can't read, and I think that has a huge impact on the world.
Kirsten Diprose: 55:34
You get it young and stop someone from having a life of thinking that they're stupid when they're not all of those things. Fantastic woman, but not that sort of, didn't really speak that way or think that way. So I'm not sure where it came from. Maybe it's some sort of genetic thing from my dad, I don't know. Nature nurture Maybe there's part of that. Maybe it's that sense that life is short when you're young and you lose to lose a parent. It's the most important person in your life at that time. So you experience, even though I can't remember it. You experience this massive loss, but you go through life knowing that, like knowing that it's part of life and that nothing is guaranteed, and I think it just gives you a different perspective, perhaps that other people certainly can get and have through other methods and other means. You hear about people who have had cancer or things and they've overcome it and they say I've got a new perspective, or but maybe that's where it comes from.
Catherine Marriott: 56:37
Interesting. Yeah, thank you for sharing. What about you, claire?
Claire Delahunty: 56:43
Super interesting. I'm very happy to share it because I think so often the answer is your parents or a parent, and it definitely is that way for me and I think about it a lot as I get older. My parents formed the values of my sister and I by having some very similar core values and then some very different ones. They happened to be just an odd couple. My dad spent most of his life as a professional shooter, commercially harvesting rabbits and kangaroos, and his education finished when he was 13. He did an apprenticeship and became a builder, but the most common thread in his life has been shooting.
Claire Delahunty: 57:18
And then my mum is a sort of more educated woman who went to teacher's college, became a teacher. She is what you expect the politics of the teacher to be she's a lefty. My dad does sometimes go out to a duck opening and we just joke that mum will be there at the swamp with a placard just popping up going to save the ducks when my dad is there to bag a few. So we have my sister and I have constantly watched very close hand culling of animals. We've gone through all sorts of farming landscapes, through dad's work, watching him very pragmatically harvest feral animals and then sometimes our own kangaroos for a commercial use, and he's spent a little bit of time working with national parks and that was very much a conservation effort. And then my mom will be taking the more holistic look at environment.
Claire Delahunty: 58:09
They're both very much into conservation, but I've always loved having to piece together how I speak about where they've both come from and what they do, because often when you say my dad's a shooter, people are like, oh, it's a bit of a maligned profession in some ways, and as a commercial industry it's a super limited amount of people do it as a living and it's very misunderstood. So that's a long-winded way of saying that. I've always found it interesting to see both sides of a viewpoint, especially when it comes to how we are managing land and landscape, what we live with in Australia, the long legacy of what we've done in terms of introduced species. It's all there, it's all fascinating, and I'm constantly nutting it out as I grow older and I think it would have been formed yeah, very young, that's so interesting, claire.
Catherine Marriott: 58:56
Wow, the only other thing that I've just remembered which drives my value base is understanding the privilege of being born where I am, and so I had the most extraordinary experience in Pakistan and your story, claire, reminded me of this because of the guns, and we were surrounded by guards with AK-47s.
Catherine Marriott: 59:19
And I was just sitting with this farmer under a mango tree in the middle of Pakistan and we were just yarning and then he said to me he said, catherine, we are just like Australian farmers. We want the same things. We want to educate our children, we want to have enough food to eat and we want to maybe go on a holiday every couple of years. He said I just happen to, circumstantially, have been born into a country with terrorism and you won't. And so in that story it sat me back because I was like, holy moly, we've got so much and could give so much. What else can I do to bring equality or equity? And that's where my drive for the developing country work comes from, because I realise my own privilege, but I think to pass forward the privilege that you've been given, which would have come from my mum, and an understanding of how lucky you are it drives me to try and make the world a better place.
Kirsten Diprose: 1:00:28
And that's nearly it for this Ducks on the Pond episode. Thank you to Claire Delahunty, host of Rural Leadership Unearthed, a fantastic podcast which profiles leaders in rural Australia. Thank you to the ARLF for this collaboration and thank you to Catherine Marriott. It's only taken me three years but I got her on. But it's not over, because we have yet another awesome rural woman for you to meet and that's Aspen Quick, who is the founder of Aspen Lou, an interior design business for rural homes, and she is our fantastic episode sponsor.
Aspen Quick: 1:01:01
So I'm Aspen. I'm a rural interior design specialist from Aspen, lou Interior Design and founder of Herbie Home Interiors, which will be launching soon.
Kirsten Diprose: 1:01:11
Great, all right, tell me about the first one. What do you do there?
Aspen Quick: 1:01:15
So I spend a lot of interior design and I create functional and tranquil home sanctuaries. That's cohesive with our rural clients' way of life, so making sure that we look at functionality as well as organisation in the home as well.
Kirsten Diprose: 1:01:29
And what do you find is different about rural clients in particular, and perhaps what they want in a home and how you design it?
Aspen Quick: 1:01:36
I think it's a little bit different because when you're living rurally, it's you know the office, it's the home with the children, it's you know the space where you're spending so much time. And it's got to be such a versatile space. And I know personally the home sort of comes second to the farm. Versatile space, and I know personally the home sort of comes second to the farm. So, you know, I think it's just really important that people focus on having a space that they can retreat to, that is functional, organized and offers, you know, conversation and an ability to relax.
Kirsten Diprose: 1:02:06
Yeah, and whereabouts?
Aspen Quick: 1:02:08
are you based? So I'm currently based in Catherine, northern Territory. I'm from the Golden Valley in Victoria so I moved up here. A couple of Northern Territory. I'm from the Golden Valley in Victoria, so we moved up here a couple of years ago.
Kirsten Diprose: 1:02:16
Very different, very different, but that's really interesting and do you help people from all over Australia?
Aspen Quick: 1:02:23
Yes, so our core service is our e-design and that's how we can help men and women across all rural corners. So that's the ability to jump online and we can design your space via eDesign. So I think it's pretty cool that we've got that service available now.
Kirsten Diprose: 1:02:38
Yeah, that's amazing. I know I don't have a great eye for that sort of thing. How do you help people like me, who I struggle to visualize things? I can't look at plans and really see it.
Aspen Quick: 1:02:52
Yeah, it's funny, I'm working with a client like that at the moment so he can visualise it, but he's like my wife can't. We need help. So basically, yeah, just prepare everything so that it's delivered in a streamlined way, so it takes out all the overwhelm. We go through a really detailed consultation where we look at the way the client actually lives and then we work out how that relates to the design of the home and we present it in a visual way so that you can look at colors, design and compare everything together. So it's just being able to put it together without the overwhelm of having all these things accessible, which a lot of people struggle with, and what's your new business?
Aspen Quick: 1:03:32
So that's Herbie Home Interiors. So essentially Aspen Lou and Herbie Home Interiors will work together, but that will be launching again interior design and that will be launching soon everything. So Aspen Lou is more my personal brand and Herbie Home Interiors is the main business. That everything will be underneath.
Kirsten Diprose: 1:03:50
I love to ask this of all of our sponsors, because they're generally amazing women like yourself who are doing very well in business. What's the best piece of business advice you've ever received? Or you read somewhere and tell me why.
Aspen Quick: 1:04:04
I'm not sure if it's the best piece of business advice, but I guess it sort of is. It's just starting and finding someone to support you through that, because this has been a long time coming for me and I finally found some support that has actually really been able to push me into launching all this and doing this full-time as well as a business. So just having that mentorship there, I think, is really, really important and finding someone that aligns with you and is going to encourage you and be in your corner. I think that's the best thing I've learned anyway.
Kirsten Diprose: 1:04:36
Who's that for you? Is that like a business coach, or is it just you know someone in your circle?
Aspen Quick: 1:04:40
Yeah, a business coach. So I've got a business coach that I catch up with every fortnight or three weeks and it's just, yeah, able to help direct me with where I'm wanting to go and how I want to do things, and just having that encouragement and support from someone that already has successful businesses, it makes an absolute difference.
Kirsten Diprose: 1:04:58
And how did you get into this business yourself and why design and interior design for you?
Aspen Quick: 1:05:05
I've always had an interest in it. For years I've always been fluffing around styling my own home and then a few years ago I really started putting my interests and passions somewhere. And then a few years ago, I really started putting my interest and passion somewhere and then over time it's just developed into interior design. So I've did my studies and it's just kind of directed me that way, I guess. But I love it. I love interior design. I'm so passionate about it. I think it's so important. Can you tell us how we can best find you? Yes, so you can look us up on our website that is aspen-loocom, and we're offering a 10% discount to Ducks on the Pond listeners. They just need to let us know that they've listened to this episode when they book one of our services and aspenloo-interiordesign is our Instagram.
Kirsten Diprose: 1:05:47
Thank you. 10% off, that's great. Thank you so much and thank you for supporting us. I really appreciate it.
Aspen Quick: 1:05:53
No, thank you. We love the podcast. We listen to it literally every week. I love to hear that. Thank you.
