How to start a renewable energy project

Season 5

10 July

Regional Australia has always been at the frontline for energy innovation and delivery. Sure, it's the politicians in the cities that talk about a transition, but it's in our backyard that these projects actually happen.

Some renewables, such as wind, seem to be particularly controversial in a few parts of the country right now. This episode is not diving into that. Instead, it’s looking at how we design renewable energy projects, to ensure farmers and communities have the value of renewables delivered back to them. This includes exploring how renewable could offset farm emissions, to demanding more from big companies to provide long term support to a community, in areas that will make a difference.

Guests:

Karin Stark - Cotton Farmer in Narromine, NSW and founder of the National Renewables in Agriculture Conference.
Susan Findlay-Tickner - Grain Grower near Horsham, VIC, who is part of a wind farm project.

So if you’re curious about renewables, from solar, to hydro, wind and even bio energy, we dive into how to assess whether it’s a good investment for your farm, what questions you should be asking and how to work together as a community.

Also, the National Renewables in Agriculture Conference is coming up on 23 July, in Bendigo.

This episode is sponsored by ByCC Fine Jewellery, thank you for your support. And there’s a special promo for listeners!

Follow Ducks on the Pond on Instagram. This is a Rural Podcasting Co. production - we help you tell your own story. Love this podcast? You might also like: Two Smart Blondes and Town Criers.

Karin Stark: 0:04
When you hear people saying, oh, we're giving up prime agricultural land to renewables, that's not really accurate, or it doesn't have to be that way. It doesn't have to be either, or it can certainly be both.
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 0:16
And you look at the opportunities that this new generation of electricity can bring to those towns. There's opportunities there that, if we we can harvest them, would be really exciting.
Kirsten Diprose: 0:34
Hi, Kirsten Diprose here and welcome to Ducks on the Pond, brought to you by the Rural Podcasting Co. This season is sponsored by Buy CC Fine Jewellery and we have a special code for a giveaway, and I'll be giving you some information about that a little bit later on in this episode. So keep listening Now. Regional Australia has always been at the front line for energy innovation and delivery. Sure, it's the politicians in the cities that talk about a transition, but it's in our backyard that these projects actually happen. It's us living with the reality of its presence on our doorstep. Now, I know some renewables, such as wind, are particularly controversial for farmers in some parts of the country right now, and, it's fair to say, communities are keen to make sure they have value delivered back to their region. In this episode, I'm not diving into a debate. I'm really simply seeking to understand what it's like to be part of a renewable energy project that could be solar, hydro, wind and even bioenergy. How do you assess if it's a good investment for your farm, or how do you work together as a community if there's a potential opportunity there? What questions should you be asking? So if you've ever wondered where to start or what it might look like once you've invested in one of these projects.
Kirsten Diprose: 2:03
I've got the guests for you. First up, Karin Stark. As the founder of the National Renewables in Agriculture Conference, Karin spends a lot of time helping people on the journey towards getting the most out of renewable technologies. As a farmer herself in Narromine in central New South Wales, she has plenty of firsthand experience mine in central New South Wales. She has plenty of first-hand experience and, as you'll hear, it hasn't always gone to plan for her. Also for this episode I speak with Susan Findlay-Tickner. She's a grain grower in Western Victoria near Horsham and has used part of her farming land to host an ambitious wind farm project. But first let's meet Karin Stark.
Karin Stark: 2:56
I moved to this property with my partner about 12 years ago, and before that I had been living in Perth and then spent five years in the UK, so I really didn't have much of a connection to farming and agriculture, if I'm honest. So coming to move to the farm and learn all about our food and fibre has been really life-changing for me. And whereabouts do you live? I live in Narromine, or about half an hour southwest of Narromine, which is in the central west New South Wales. How far out of Dubbo would that be? It's an hour's drive. Yeah, it's like my marker.
Kirsten Diprose: 3:30
Yeah, yeah.
Karin Stark: 3:30
I usually say that to people because no one knows where Narromine is. And what do you do on the property.
Kirsten Diprose: 3:36
What do you produce?
Karin Stark: 3:38
We grow cotton. That's our kind of main game over summer and in winter we grow anything from canola We've done safflower one year, but mainly wheat and barley and sometimes lupin.
Kirsten Diprose: 3:50
And so how did you get involved in renewables, and particularly renewables in ag?
Karin Stark: 3:55
Yep. So I studied environmental science and sustainable development for my uni degree and I've always worked in kind of community engagement programs designing, delivering and evaluating them and throughout my career I was always interested in how renewables can help fight climate change and reduce costs. So when I came to the farm I was working for state government, actually for the Office of Environment Heritage, looking at how do we increase investment in renewables in New South Wales, and that led me to see that there was a bit of interest in how solar can actually reduce costs and emissions for irrigation and we were spending a lot of money on diesel for pumping water groundwater for our cotton each year. So through that work I did with state government, we ran a few workshops for farmers really to look at how can solar be used for pumping and what can renewables be, how can you apply renewables in agriculture, and we got 60 to 70 farmers per workshop and that was really before any solar pumps had been installed that I knew of. So it was really the theory.
Karin Stark: 4:59
And from those couple of workshops I ran, one of my neighbours put in a 100 kilowatt solar diesel irrigation pump for his cotton and we ran a field day there in collaboration with a land care group and there was over 120 people that came, so you could see that interest was really starting to build. How do we cut costs? How do we make the most of solar? And solar really had reduced by about this cost of solar had reduced by about 80% in about 10 years. So the business case was becoming stronger and stronger. So it's from there that I started to think maybe there needs to be some type of conference around. How do we use renewables to cut costs and decarbonise?
Kirsten Diprose: 5:39
So when was that initial mini conference or just gathering? When was that? I think it was about 2014, 2015.
Karin Stark: 5:47
You're testing my memory now, but it was quite early on, and our farm actually went on to install Australia's largest solar diesel irrigation pump in 2018. But it has been a bit of a disaster, if I'm honest, which I think people that know me know. I'm very transparent about that and it just goes to the fact that it's not easy for farmers to transition to renewables, because sometimes the technology is not right in our case, sometimes the expertise or the regional staff staffing is just not there really to help farmers, or the high capital cost is another barrier.
Kirsten Diprose: 6:19
So when you say it's been a disaster, what's happened?
Karin Stark: 6:23
So our pump. We went from diesel only to a solar-diesel hybrid, and that means we were using solar to pump water during the day and it would switch over and blend with the diesel when it was cloudy or in the morning or evening periods, and then we'd use diesel overnight. So what happened at the scale that we're working at is we have 500 kilowatts of solar, so that's about 1,550, have 500 kilowatts of solar, so that's about 1,550 panels on a hectare of land, and then we have a 500 kV diesel cat generator as well to pump water. But when you're using a diesel generator of that scale, it's not working efficiently.
Karin Stark: 7:00
When, for example, there's a cloud event and the solar starts to lose a little bit of power, it needs to call upon this massive diesel generator just to trickle in like a light bulb's worth of power. So it wasn't working hard enough and that causes glazing within the generator and can shorten its life. But also when there was a sudden cloud event, the system would basically stop because the diesel generator couldn't ramp up quick enough to provide that lost power and the whole thing would just turn off. So it hasn't really worked for three or four, probably five years now, and it was a five-year payback initially, so the economics was fantastic, but with the way that the research and development has been going, really probably a battery could have been part of the solution of that system. But also we're looking at a grid connection now as well to replace the diesel, because it's actually cheaper and less emissions if you go to the grid.
Kirsten Diprose: 7:52
So what are you doing now, then? Because you're obviously still just as passionate as ever about renewables, have you done anything different on your own property?
Karin Stark: 8:00
With the renewables. We're still trying to figure out how do we resolve this issue and we're really determined to still use that solar as part of the pump, as a farming sector, help to meet our net zero targets, and also it builds resilience on your farm if you can call on a local energy supply on your own property, and also reduces costs hugely, which is important for when we go through things like droughts or there's floods and you might not have a crop for a year or you might not be profitable otherwise.
Kirsten Diprose: 8:40
Otherwise, so what are some of the systems or ways that you can incorporate renewables on a farm, because I know that there are some kind of like rent schemes? If it's a wind farm, can you generate power and put it directly back into your property or into your community? All of those kind of things. What's on the table for us to choose from?
Karin Stark: 9:12
So when I consider renewables and agriculture on that intersection, farmers have a lot of power in our energy transition because we have the land. So that large scale of town, with the energy transition trying to replace coal-fired power stations, we have the land to host large-scale solar and wind developments really, and batteries as well, and transmission infrastructure is required for that. So there's that end where you lease your land. That's the general model and you can get up to $30,000 to $40,000 per wind turbine now to have on your property, and with solar I think it's $1,500 per hectare and you can farm under solar as well. So when you hear people saying, oh, we're giving up prime agricultural land to renewables, that's not really accurate. Or it doesn't have to be that way, it doesn't have to be either, or it can certainly be both. And it's a win-win because having farming, particularly things like merino sheep, is done in a few large-scale solar farms that provide shade and protection for the sheep. The fencing can keep predators out and for the solar developer or operator, having sheep there means that they're reducing their very expensive mowing and slashing costs as well. So there's a win-win in terms of that larger scale of town.
Karin Stark: 10:18
And then when it comes to renewables on your own property, which is what my conference is really focused on. It does touch on the large scale and what does it mean for regional communities. What can you do, like you just mentioned, but on your own property? The best way to use renewables is to use that power behind the meter, because we don't get a lot back from feed-in tariffs, because the grid tends to be oversaturated with solar already, particularly during the day. So if you can use that power first on your own property, that's what's going to be saving you the most money. And there's everything from smaller scale five to 10 to 30 kilowatt systems that might help run cool rooms or pumps. You can have microturbines, but they're not very common in Australia and it's a lot cheaper to do solar. But also bioenergy. There's piggeries and poultry farms that are trying to use that manure to produce biogas that they can then use for heating, to replace LPG or to put some of it back into the grid. How do we?
Kirsten Diprose: 11:12
find projects that are happening, because some of them are quite new or just may not be easy to find. How do we find people who are working in this area, make those connections and feel confident in making a decision?
Karin Stark: 11:29
That's where the value of the National Renewables and Agriculture Conference comes in. Really, it's the only national event that brings these types of people together, like the suppliers, the governments, the peak bodies and the farmers and the developers to say look, all of these people are interested in how renewables and agriculture can work together for better outcomes in the future. So that's one of my first recommendations If you want to meet other people, other farmers, you want to talk to credible businesses. There's governments there trying to understand what's the landscape for farmers. How do they make better policy decisions. That would be a really good forum to go to.
Karin Stark: 12:02
Otherwise, there's groups like Farmers for Climate Action as well that often do webinars or run networking meetings or small localised fellowships, for example, that might look at energy or renewables, or they might have speakers come on to webinars that can help you understand what the options are and who's out there that are working on that. In New South Wales and Queensland there's also some fantastic resources there's the New South Wales Farmers have Just Released a Renewable Energy and Transmission Landholder Guide, which brings you through all the little different bits you need to understand for the larger scale energy transition, not renewables on your farm, and Queensland Farmers Federation also have a very similar toolkit to try and guide and support farmers to understand renewable energy options on their property, but it's more for the large scale again.
Kirsten Diprose: 12:50
What about some of the community options? I'm personally really fascinated in some of those small communities who have gone. Let's go off the grid together or let's get some sort of renewable energy source that can power a group of farms or even a small township. Do you have any great examples of where?
Karin Stark: 13:12
that's worked. Yeah, there's Hepburn Wind in Victoria. So there's a couple of turbines there that are community owned and people bought in shares and helped to build it and then they get the proceeds and profit that comes out of that. But these community energy projects, I think they're very important for ensuring that we have energy justice and we don't have just large-scale developers coming to regional areas, building their big projects and infrastructure and then leaving and then all that money goes to these large-scale developers that sometimes are overseas, sometimes in Australia.
Karin Stark: 13:44
So if a community can actually be proactive and take charge and try and develop some smaller scale usually it's solar projects. There's one called Haystacks Solar Garden in the Riverina area in New South Wales, for example. That's a great way that people get involved in their local community in the energy transition and you can actually earn money from putting money into positive future energy projects. So there are quite a few that are happening. There's one in Goldburn in New South Wales as well. But they do take a lot of expertise and time and I think sometimes that momentum because these projects can take quite a long time from feasibility, technical studies, grid connection, all of that. They sometimes need a bit of government funding to help that out, particularly in the early stages, which the government has been doing, particularly in New South Wales.
Kirsten Diprose: 14:37
You know how do we navigate that system. I think there might be people who are interested in perhaps having wind farms on their property or in their community in some capacity, but are worried about backlash.
Karin Stark: 14:51
Yeah, sadly, there has been a lot of controversy and, as you said, it can divide communities sometimes, which is really sad, because I think what has happened in the past that hasn't been done well is that when a, just say, a wind developer initially comes and approaches farmers or landholders, either they've used things like NDAs so that those people can't talk to their neighbours about what changes might be happening in their neighbourhood. These wind farms and solar farms. Sometimes they can create winners and losers in communities, because the people that are hosting can earn hundreds of thousands and drought-proof their farms. But if those benefits aren't shared with neighbours and local communities, that's where you get a lot of angst, because these do create some change in communities, particularly visual sometimes. So I think it's only fair that wealth is shared across all different types of groups living in those regional areas.
Karin Stark: 15:44
The other issue which the NDAs can contribute to is poor engagement from these big developers or government sometimes. So that also leads to mistrust of what's happening in the local area. What's environmental issues around bird strikes are also one that comes up regularly with things like wind farms. So really, if a developer goes to a community or region, it's really important that they start to understand what's that landscape like, who are the leaders, what are the sensitive areas, what's the environment like, before they really start to approach people, and it's important that they talk to everybody about it, not just the host landholders, because that's fair. If you're going to be the neighbor to one of these big developments, you want to understand what's happening, what are the impacts on you, how can you influence the process as well, and so all of that really needs to be laid out clearly to people, which I don't think always has been in the past, unfortunately.
Kirsten Diprose: 16:38
What are some of the emerging technologies that might be quite interesting? So hydrogen might be another one, and whether or not you classify that as renewable, you let me know what are some of those emerging things that are good just to keep our eyes and ears open to.
Karin Stark: 16:54
Well, in terms of technology, hydrogen initially at my conference I did have people speaking about hydrogen, but it seemed like it was going to be quite difficult to get the cost down.
Karin Stark: 17:03
And green hydrogen obviously is what we're talking about, which is created with renewable energy, not with fossil fuels Potentially hydrogen in the future. It does require water, but that could be a technology that either farmers could produce on their properties to use in tractors or whatever it might be, or to sell. If that becomes a bigger industry but I wouldn't say that's one for the very near future and other innovations. We're going to be seeing things like biomethane tractors, electric tractors in the future, and what I think could be quite exciting for farmers is that if we had a massive network of battery electric tractors, we only use them 20%, 40%, 60% of the time, so they're just sitting there, and if it was coordinated, we could connect them to the grid to charge and recharge like a massive stock of batteries really. So then farmers could be paid for those grid firming services to be doing that. So that's one of the things that potentially in the future could be a good opportunity for farmers to get involved in.
Kirsten Diprose: 18:04
What's a good way to think about renewables on your property in terms of making sure it's sustainable and you're going to get an economic benefit from it? Because I know there can be often a sort of outlay for the hardware. So if we're talking about solar, but then you pay it back over time and the idea is that you're getting that benefit and savings in electricity but you might not see that benefit for five, six, seven years, yeah, what's a good way to assess whether this is a good investment for you? And I know you don't do financial advice, it's just. These are the sorts of things I think about, because I find it hard to assess these things sometimes to make sure that I'm making a good decision.
Karin Stark: 18:47
Yeah, it can be quite fraught understanding whether it's worth outlaying a massive amount early on which you said, as you said, gets paid back in four or five years. It, yeah, it depends on your business. There are I think you mentioned it earlier there are models out there like ppa models or we. There's no upfront cost power purchase agreements is what they're called where a business might put a 20 kilowatt solar on your property, either to run your own sheds or harvesting whatever you're doing, or put it back into the grid, and then you get cheaper power straight away. But it might only be 20% cheaper rather than the 80% if you'd bought that system upfront. So with those types of systems, I think it's important to understand what the lifetime of that kind of model would be for you, because it can sometimes be twice as expensive than if you had just loaned that money from the bank and then paid for that system upfront.
Karin Stark: 19:43
But yeah, with renewables, one of the kind of barriers that we do see is quite high capital costs, which not everybody really can afford, and particularly with farming where, you probably understand, some years you don't have an income because there's droughts or crops or whatever, or floods or whatever might be happening. So if you outlay, like we did, eight to 900,000 for a system, then you have three bad years following that. That can put a lot of pressure on the books of a farm and creates a lot of stress. There are some different funding programs around. One's called the Rural Assistance Authority, ria, that we use, which I think get $250,000 at a very low interest rate, so that can help with some of the costs. And the Clean Energy Finance Incorporation are also doing some types of green loans at the moment as well to help farmers with those high capital costs.
Kirsten Diprose: 20:34
So you've got your conference coming up again in July in Bendigo in Victoria. What can we expect to see?
Karin Stark: 20:42
So this conference is pretty exciting. It's the first time it's coming to Victoria. It's the sixth conference that we're running. The last one sold out, which is amazing really. We've got a farmer from New Zealand who has fully electrified his cherry farm and he's got the first electric monarch tractor from the US on his property and he uses electric frost fans that he got from South Africa and now he's, I think, got an electric ute that he converted. So he'll be telling his story and he's really passionate about how farms can be the kind of powerhouse of the future as well and help power the grid with distributed renewable energy.
Karin Stark: 21:17
We've got a piggery owner here, or a piggery that uses biogas and it's a bit of a circular economy operation as well, because they produce fertilizer as well from the pig manure as well as power. So that's exciting. We've got a dairy farm in Victoria who has been trying to put controlled microgrids in place, using solar for her irrigation and feeding it back into the grid. So she'll be talking about some of the way that works and some of the issues they've had with the distribution network, but also we'll be also covering off on agrivoltaics, which is the farming under solar panels.
Karin Stark: 21:53
We'll have a lawyer, claire Booth, and she's a farmer as well, from Dubbo. She's been on our podcast. Oh has she? Oh, I have to look it up. Fantastic. She'll be talking about tax and insurance implications of hosting and succession planning, how to set up your farm and succession planning if you are hosting renewables and getting an income that way, and we'll have a session on microgrids and the evolving distribution network as well. So there's lots of really interesting bits and pieces that will be there throughout the day, as well as Tony Wood from the Grattan Institute giving us a bit of an overview of where are we as a country in terms of the renewables revolution, how does the US politics impact us, and some of the economics and business case behind our energy transition as well.
Kirsten Diprose: 22:45
If you're feeling inspired by Karin, I recommend heading down to the National Renewables in Agriculture Conference, which is going to be held in Bendigo on the 23rd of July. You can find all the information about tickets and what to expect online. Trust me, if I wasn't on the road at the time, I'm currently caravanning around Australia. I'm in the NT right now, but if I wasn't, I would be there myself. Next we'll hear from a grower who lives in an area where wind farms have been controversial of late, but she's one of several landowners who are part of a large scale project. But first, here's a message from our sponsor.
Ash Molloy: 23:30
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Kirsten Diprose: 24:13
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Susan Findlay-Tickner: 25:25
I grew up on a dairy farm on the Mornington Peninsula and some might not say that's rural Victoria, but it certainly was. When I grew up there and then subsequently went to uni, met my husband and moved to Horsham to join their grain growing farming enterprise.
Kirsten Diprose: 25:43
That's quite different dairy to grain. Look, cows eat grain sometimes, but beyond that they're very different operating systems.
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 25:51
They certainly were. Yes, Back in the early 90s, late 80s, the dairy industry was very different. It was a learning curve. I've been there for 27 years now so it was a steep learning curve. But, yes, certainly really learnt to appreciate the grains industry and the complexities that exist within it.
Kirsten Diprose: 26:11
It's very dry, obviously, where you are, and I'm just a bit south of you. How are things looking at the moment? How are you feeling? Feeling?
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 26:19
really positive. We've come off quite a few good years, so last year wasn't as good. But for us we don't run any livestock, we only have grains. So for us having a dry summer is probably good because we're not spending evenings and nights spraying weeds that they destroy our moisture content of our soil. So we keep on top of weeds over summer. So our average break is about the 15th of May. Either side of that we're dry sowing at the moment, so we'll be looking for some rain. But for us we're on the pipeline for water, so we've moved away from that channel system years ago. So we have surety of water supply, but we don't have livestock. So it's our pastures, and fodder isn't as important at this time of year.
Kirsten Diprose: 27:08
So I'm here to talk to you about renewable energy. What kind of renewables do you have on your farm?
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 27:15
We host wind turbines as part of the Murrawarra Wind Farm. It's a 99 turbine wind farm that is spread across about 19 land holdings and we host five turbines as part of that wind farm.
Kirsten Diprose: 27:32
And when did you join that project?
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 27:36
that wind farm and when did you join that project? Look, that project took about 10 years in development. So it was. The construction was completed in 2022 and it took four years over the two stages of the wind farm. The first stage was 61 turbines and the second stage was 38 turbines. So we are in the second stage and over the construction period it was about four years in the second stage and over the construction period it was about four years. Why does it take so long? Why does it take so long? That's a good question. So it was in two stages. The actual construction actually doesn't take as long. It's like Legos. It was super fun.
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 28:07
I ran a Twitter feed while it was being constructed at Marawara. It's probably dead in the water now, but because I was so entranced by just the scale and magnitude of the project. They are big projects and there's a lot of infrastructure that comes into your community when that happens. But they start off cutting the tracks and getting roads and tracks up to scratch, and then they bring in the equipment to the cranes and start putting the bases in and then they basically construct the wind turbines on top of that. So once the foundations are laid like building a house. I guess once the foundations are laid they go up quickly, but getting the foundations ready is a period. So they fully constructed stage one before they started on stage two, so it was probably a two-year process done twice.
Kirsten Diprose: 29:03
We've had quite a few wind farms in my region and so just seeing like the big parts come on the trucks and you have to pull over right on the side of the road as these massive parts of the turbines would come through, yeah, I used to capture it as well and put it up on socials. It was, I don't know. It felt like some kind of parade that was happening on the street.
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 29:23
Yeah, it's an exciting time. There's a lot of people around, there's things happening that. Yeah, the parts coming in are amazing because you actually can see them on the roads and see how big they are, because when they're actually up in the sky you don't necessarily see the magnitude of them. But our turbines from memory about 240 meters. They are significant on the landscape.
Kirsten Diprose: 29:47
It's probably not great for the roads when they're transported on there, but what can you do?
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 29:52
Well, let's say the developers have to do before and after assessments of the roads and they have to bring them back up to scratch. I have been witness to that, so they do make sure that they should. It's part of their planning permit. They have to ensure that roads are maintained post-construction, so while it is a concern for people living with it throughout that transportation period, they should be held to account to restore those roads.
Kirsten Diprose: 30:20
Yeah, and look, that's a big part of this conversation is making sure we get communities what they want and what they need when it comes to a renewable energy project, and I think the one that you're involved in is really interesting because 19, did you say 19 properties are involved.
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 30:40
Landholders, landholders.
Kirsten Diprose: 30:41
Yeah, so how did that come about in the first place?
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 30:45
That came about with RES, the developer who originally developed the project. They identified that our area as being a good source of wind and close to transmission, so they didn't have to transmit the electricity very far. They could cut into the line quite close to where the electricity is being generated. So it was a matter of getting to know the developers, building a relationship with them and then going through the development process, which is extensive, while the landholders commit to hosting the turbines. At the same time they're going through rigorous processes with council, they're doing environmental statements, they're looking at First Nations activity in the area, and that all happens behind the scenes. But as a landholder you commit to saying, okay, we'll be part of this project, and then all this stuff happens behind the scenes that we don't see as the process that has to be gone through with.
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 31:51
They have to work with the AEMO to ensure that they are able to cut into the grid at that point. There's so many checks and balances that happen along the way that it is a lengthy process and it was from our first contact. It was about 10 years before they started construction. Remnant vegetation tests they had to look at that. They had to look at wildlife they had to look at roads and get permits from VicRoads to transport the equipment. So there's a lot behind the scenes that we didn't see. But yeah, it was a lengthy process.
Kirsten Diprose: 32:23
Was there any difficulties in the community at the time, particularly if you're not keen on having a wind turbine on your property or having one in your area? Was there any issues?
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 32:34
Marawara went through development without a single opposition lodged, without any opposition lodged, and I think part of that was the relationship that was had with the community and the involvement of local and regional companies. There was opportunity that they saw there's water carriers, there's civil works that were undertaken by local companies, there were electrical jobs. There's ongoing work with our local companies doing electrical work and civil works on the project still so, I think the community saw it as an opportunity, which it certainly was.
Kirsten Diprose: 33:15
In terms of what individual landholders get back. How do you get any economic benefit?
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 33:22
Obviously there's a rental payment, an annual rental payment, and that is a contractual payment. So that is over the life of the project that the landholders receive that rental payment. So that's the individual life of the project that the landholders receive that rental payment. So that's the individual benefit. I guess, if you extrapolate that out, certainly the region or the community gets benefit. There's a payment in lieu of rates that the wind farm makes to the local councils and that is actually quite a significant amount of money. In fact the wind farm is the highest rate payer for the Yerriambiak Shire Council. The whole community benefits from those rates being paid and there is a community fund that is an annual payment made to communities for projects that benefit the communities and there is also, I think, the job opportunities that that occur and there are now 14 people working on site and they some of them were local, some of them have moved to the region and I was sitting at the footy club a few weeks ago and talking to one of the guys that works on the ongoing operations and management, maintenance of the turbines and he's joined the local footy club. He's moved to the region and really embraced the community. So I see there are opportunities there.
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 34:38
One of the things that I was close to my heart during construction was the school tours of the construction and I think that's super valuable for the children of regional communities to see major infrastructure projects in their region, but also understanding that the jobs and opportunities that they could go on site and they could see the different things that were happening on site and the jobs that they could potentially do. There's engineers, but there's also there's truck drivers, there's the guy the cement plant that was put on site there was sorry concrete plant that was put on site and there were. There are office jobs and there's all sorts of things that I think the kids could see and they don't often get the opportunity to go to see projects like that in construction and I think it was really good that they saw that.
Kirsten Diprose: 35:37
And how much say did the community have in terms of what some of those is the community fund and the money going to the council, and is that ongoing? Like is it every year forever?
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 35:50
or like For the life of the project. So it's probably look, they say 25 to 30 years and then they re-evaluate whether they recommission the turbines or what they do with them. And that is a new industry because globally recommissioning turbines, because of course it has happened in the UK and America. But obviously we've got to wait for a project to be 25 years old or reach the end of its natural life before they work out what they're doing with them. Some of them they're not viable to recommission, so they decommission them, so remove them from the property. The rates go to the council and they divest them as normal rates are.
Kirsten Diprose: 36:35
How do you assess whether it's worthwhile for your business? Because you can absolutely say no to these things.
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 36:41
Yeah, I think that's one of the things about renewable projects is you choose to be involved or choose not to be involved. It was a commercial decision for us. We had a look at it and the actual footprint of the wind farm is about 1.5% of that paddock, so it's not a big amount of footprint that it takes up. We can farm around it very easily. It doesn't impact our farming activities very much. It does impact them, but not very much.
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 37:15
When we were designing the layout of the turbines and tracks that we worked with the developer to make sure that they were appropriate for our business. So if you look at the pictures of the Marawara Wind Farm, the turbines are lined up in lines like soldiers and that is so that we can use our GPS tracking systems within the paddocks that they exist. So we determined that we could farm quite readily around the turbines when it gets wet over putting the crop in and harvesting the crop, because we can use it, put our big equipment on those tracks and not get bogged to move them in and out of the paddock. And it was a guaranteed income for those paddocks, which is a really nice way to farm to know that while you're working around them. You can also gain income from something that is sitting in your paddock already Taking a sort of even broader kind of perspective when it comes to renewables and agriculture.
Kirsten Diprose: 38:17
What are your feelings about what we might need to do as a sector to address that? Yes, agriculture does emit greenhouse gases, not to the level of cars or aeroplanes, but still I guess it is a bit of an issue that needs to be addressed.
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 38:40
Yes, it would be nice to be able to say you host turbines and you can offset those emissions on your farm. And I also think especially the grains industry works on a global scale. It's a global market, so we sell into a global market and I think producers will in the future have to start demonstrating responsible practices for their enterprises. So I think, Australia being known as a clean and green provider of food globally, I think some of these opportunities we could potentially explore further to make sure that we make the most of the opportunity of the renewable.
Kirsten Diprose: 39:15
Yeah, but you're right, we don't have any way of offsetting on paper or however you want to look at it, because that electricity that the turbines produce on your farm, I take it would just go back into the grid.
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 39:27
That's right. Yeah generally yeah, goes generally into the grid. So I think, if we look to the future, that's something that as farmers, we have a microgrid on our own property and we service our own property and I think that we need batteries to do that. But grain farms aren't heavy users of electricity. But I can certainly see where that would be super beneficial for something like dairy that are high users of electricity to have a microgrid that purely provides energy for that business or that group of businesses surrounding it.
Kirsten Diprose: 40:16
Yeah, and it could be towns, it could be groups of businesses or single businesses. Because, yeah, then logically you would be able to say this is what we're doing to offset some of our emissions if we're generating our own electricity offset some of our emissions if we're generating our own electricity.
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 40:39
Yeah, and I think also regions like the Wimmera are restrained for businesses to come to our region heavy electricity users because our grid is limited. There are companies that can't expand because their access to electricity is limited. So that's where I see opportunities like that would be really significant that we can actually attract businesses to our region, people to our region, because agriculture is not supporting regional Australia to the degree it used to. We're getting bigger farms, we're getting fewer people working those farms. Our towns are diminishing in population. One of our local towns it can't field an ambulance service seven days a week. The footy club is paying players to come in and play for them. The local pub shut down. The local store is only open a few days a week. And you look at towns like that and you look at the opportunities that this new generation of electricity can bring to those towns and I think there's opportunities there that, if we can harvest them, would be really exciting, should we be?
Kirsten Diprose: 41:46
demanding more, then I think a lot of people will be listening going yeah, our footy club is struggling. Yeah, our general store only opens one day a week, if we have one. Should we start to demand more from the big companies that are coming in and using the land, or is it about demanding more from governments as to how things are planned or where people need to live? Housing, for instance, is a crisis that we're facing pretty much everywhere, but I know a lot of regional towns are struggling. They've had traditionally cheap kind of housing, but now you know essential workers can't find a house because it's too expensive. Are there broader conversations? We need to be having Look there are.
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 42:33
I think there's also some good examples of where developers, councils and communities have worked together for really good outcomes. And Hayshire Council comes up again and again that they saw the opportunity that renewables could bring to them. They worked to get good outcomes for their council and communities and I think that is a yeah. That's the shining example of what good development and good projects can come. I can't give you the details of that because I'm not across it.
Kirsten Diprose: 43:06
Karen did, so don't worry about that. Oh perfect.
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 43:09
Hey, yes, oh, that's great, yeah, yeah. So look, I think that there is. There, is the opportunity there. But we also need to remember as communities that these are, these are companies that have shareholders and we need to make realistic demands on them because if we want them to come to our communities and put these big infrastructure projects in our communities, then they're not in it for love. The cold hard truth is no one's building big infrastructure projects for love in regional communities, communities and yeah, if we can, it needs to be palatable and beneficial for the communities. But we also need to recognize that we can't expect a renewable developer to come in and build social housing for a community and then leave it at the end of the project because the financial viability of that is not there and everyone's getting increased pressure on production costs, cost of labour, cost of getting these turbines built. We've tried to build them in Australia. There's a company in Geelong that certainly is expanding its capacity to build things in Australia, but we're not physically able to build housing. You have to employ 200 local staff of people in construction, but the fact is the people living in regional communities are probably already farming or they're accountants or running the local store or driving the water truck already. So where're going to? How we can make these demands, needs to be strategic and appropriate.
Susan Findlay-Tickner: 45:17
I can only speak from my personal experience, but anyone who's thinking about hosting a renewable project or interested in hosting a renewable project or would like to find out more about what it's like, my suggestion would be speak to others. Speak to other people that have been through the process. Speak to them about what happened, what was good, what was bad, why it happened, how it happened and suggestions how they could do it differently next time. And I think there's more and more people who are hosting projects successfully and I think most people I know are really happy to speak to people who are interested and make no assumptions about what that process looks like, but learn from other farmers. We know farmers learn from other farmers, like to talk to other farmers, and I think that's really a good starting point for people who are interested or curious.
Kirsten Diprose: 46:23
And that's it for this week's episode of Ducks on the Pond. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to Susan Findlay-Tickner and to Karen Stark for their contribution to this episode. And, as I mentioned earlier, if you're listening and eager to learn more, the National Renewables in Agriculture Conference is happening in Bendigo on the 23rd of July and you'll be able to meet lots of people, including Susan. She'll be there, karen will be there, but all sorts of people who have experience in getting involved in renewable energy projects.
Kirsten Diprose: 46:57
Also a reminder to follow us, ducks on the Pond, on Instagram, as well as a couple of our other projects Two Smart Blondes and Town Criers. Rural Podcasting Co is also Instagram and we can help you create your own podcast. And finally, as a big thank you to you, our listeners, we are giving away a by CC Fine Jewelry gold ring. It's the Piper design. All you have to do to enter the draw is head to our website, ducksonthepondcomau in your email address and the code ducks7 the number seven ducks, all in capitals and you will go into the draw. All of the information is there on the website. Thank you for listening. I will speak with you again soon.